MEMRI Special Dispatch No. 225 June 6, 2001

Dr. Faysal Al-Qasem’s weekly talk show of May 15,2001, on
the Qatar TV channel Al-Jazeera, discussed the question,
“Is Zionism worse than Nazism?”(1) Against the background
of this program were on the one hand, the anti-Semitic
remarks made by Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad, and on
the other, the manifest signed by 14 Arab intellectuals,
denouncing the planned international conference of
Holocaust deniers in Beirut.

The program hosted Dr. Hayat Al-Hwayek ‘Atiya, “researcher
of Zionism” and follower of Holocaust denier Roger Garaudi
and translator of his book into Arabic. Liberal Tunisian
intellectual ‘Afif Al-Akhdhar represented the opposition to
Holocaust denial in the Arab world.

At the opening of the program, Al-Qasem, posed the
following question to Dr. ‘Atiya: “Is there a difference
between Zionism and Nazism?” ‘Atiya responded that the
question should be looked at from two perspectives, the
logical and the textual. Logically, she claimed, “the
question must be asked: ‘what is it exactly that we
denounce in Nazism?’” According to her, there are two
elements in Nazism that should be denounced: “The first is
the racism, that is, the belief in the superiority of the
Aryan race over the rest of the races, and the second is
the military expansion at the expense of others, stemming
from this belief.”

After establishing these two points, Dr. ‘Atiya stated that
these two principles “precisely existed in the Zionist
mentality and ideology… ever since the days of the Jewish
Torah… the belief in being the ‘Chosen People’ is one of
the foundations of the Zionist project. As for the
expansion, there is nothing left to say, because we are
living through it.”

As for the textual perspective, ‘Atiya cited “some of the
words of both Jewish and Nazi intellectuals. Nahum Goldman
says that there is a common trait to both German Nazis and
Jews, and that is the selectivity and the belief in a
common destiny as a divine mission. Writer Michel Rashlan
compares sections of Mein Kampf to the Jewish Torah, and
comes to the conclusion that… the ideological roots of
the Nazis can be found in the Book of Joshua… In 1935 a
French newspaper published an interview with the Nazi
theoretician, Alfred Rosenberg, in which he said he
supports Zionism and is enchanted by it, because of its
similarity to Nazism…”

‘Afif Al-Akhdhar was asked to respond to the comparison
between Nazism and Zionism, but he began by addressing the
manifest by 14 Arab intellectuals, denouncing the planned
conference of Holocaust deniers in Beirut.

The conference was subsequently cancelled by the Lebanese
government following protests from Arab intellectuals and
Jewish groups: “The only reason for which I did not sign
the manifest was that I was not asked to. Furthermore, if
they had not been in a rush, hundreds of Arab intellectuals
would have signed it,” explained ‘Afif Al-Akhdhar.

The main reasons given by Al-Akhdhar regarding his stance
against the conference of historical revisionists in Beirut
are as follows: He explained that from a political point
of view, following the collapse of the Soviet Bloc, no
policy can succeed if it is not favorable to international
diplomacy and public opinion. “If we adopt the Nazis’
garbage,” he explained, “we will lose on our issue, namely
the liberation of the Arab lands occupied in 1967…
Politically, if we support revisionism and Holocaust
deniers… we will lose international diplomacy.”

Al-Akhdhar began by emphasizing that he does not denounce
revisionist historians only for political reasons, but also
on moral grounds. Before he could finish his explanation
‘Atiya interrupted him and would not allow him to continue.
“Madame,” Al-Akhdhar said to her, “do not be a Nazi and do
not be fascist.”

Once Dr. ‘Atiya was given the stage, she complained: “He
did not answer the question. He avoided the subject. I was
talking about the 1930s, when there was no revisionism and
no Holocaust. I was talking about the cooperation between
Zionism and Nazism… he evaded history in order to attack
the Beirut conference… He should not be telling us about
appeasing diplomacy and the media. [The Arab intellectuals]
living in the West only want to appease. Those of us who
live here are not interested in appeasing anyone; we are
interested in the truth… The Jews supported the Nuremberg
Laws because they made the Transfer easier…”

Dr. ‘Atiya’s comments angered Al-Akhdhar, who accused her
of “talking like the Taliban, saying that ‘the media
doesn’t interest her.’” According to him, “whoever wants to
recover the land and establish a homeland for the
Palestinians must take the international media into
consideration.”
“There is no doubt that there is a commonality between
Nazism and Zionism,” Al-Akhdhar said, but he quickly added,
“this commonality exists between Nazism and all nationalist
movements,” which are based on one principle, namely the
centrality of ethnic and racial elements. That is why they
use expressions like “the Chosen People” or the phrase
common among Islamists: “We are the greatest nation
delivered to mankind.” “The nations that have given up
national narcissism and the centrality of ethnicity,” he
added, “are the nations that have risen to a higher level
of civilization.”

On the defensive, ‘Atiya claimed she is involved in the
media, even in the French language, and denied having said
the media was unimportant. She added that she is a
Maronite Christian and therefore “I cannot be compared to
the Taliban.”

Al-Qasem raised the possibility of renewing the UN
resolution equating Zionism to racism, and Al-Akhdhar
claimed this proposal “is un-political”: “While there is a
consensus that Israel is not a Nazi state, you get up and
yell that Israel is a Nazi state. Then you get into
trouble, just like one of the leaders did recently [meaning
Bashar Assad]. Then you approach international diplomacy
and waste weeks and months trying to explain and clarify
and claim that your comments were taken out of context,
etc. The main thing for us is the struggle against the
occupation and the settlements. What is the point, then, to
constantly say: Israel is Nazi, Israel is worse than
Nazism, Israel is worse than fascism, etc. We cannot fight
against international diplomacy, because then we will lose
our cause… We must learn from Israel and be realistic.”

On the other hand, ‘Atiya claimed that dealing with the
Holocaust serves the general interests of the Arabs and
Palestinians. “The media is psychology,” she explained,
“the comparison of Zionism to Nazism in the media is a blow
to Western psychology, because the Western conscience is
particularly sensitive to the Nazis.”

The discussion was then opened to audience participation.
On the line was Ibrahim Alloush of Jordan, editor of the
anti-Semitic web-site The Free Arab Voice and board member
of the League Against Zionism and Racism. He claimed that
“The Holocaust myth has three aspects. First, there is the
lie about the policy of extermination of the Jews; second,
the lie about the killing of six million Jews in the Second
World War; and third, the lie about the gas chambers. The
most important aspect about the Holocaust myth are the
tales about the gas chambers, because they are where [the
locations] the Jews were supposedly exterminated. If we
prove that the gas chambers did not exist, as the
[revisionist] historians have done, the entire Holocaust
myth will collapse.”

Alloush agreed with ‘Atiya’s assertion that Holocaust
denial serves Arab interests, “because it is not merely a
historical question, but an issue of contemporary politics
and media. The importance of the Holocaust myths for the
Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims, is that they justify the
need for the existence of an occupying Zionist state,
because the Jews need a state of their own for safe refuge.
Secondly, it also justifies the Zionist movement’s
violation of UN resolutions, claiming what happened to the
Jews in the so-called Holocaust gives them a excuse for not
following international law…”

Alloush also addressed the intellectuals who signed the
manifest against the Beirut conference and stated they
“betrayed their role as intellectuals because they asked an
Arab government to prevent intellectual activity. They also
betrayed their political role as Arab intellectuals,
because instead of fighting Zionism, they joined it and
adopted its rhetoric… Accepting the Holocaust is the
heart of cultural normalization with the Zionist enemy…”

Al-Akhdhar said that although Dr. ‘Atiya’s activities could
be described as a media campaign, “it is a media campaign
aimed at Arab public opinion, which is already in her
pocket.” He, on the other hand, is trying to win over the
world’s public opinion. Al-Akhdhar explained, “she has no
chance of writing in any international newspaper, besides
the revisionist newspapers which are distributed secretly.
She cannot say it on CNN or on any Western TV station.
Instead of dealing with the Nazi’s garbage and the lies of
the revisionists and the deniers, we should be translating
the works of the Israeli new-historians. They have truly
exploded the Zionist founding myths, according to which
Palestine was a land without a people… They have proved
that the Palestinian people was exiled and that Arab
villages were turned into Jewish villages.”

Enraged, ‘Atiya responded, “It is a shame that an
intellectual should stand on the side of the strong and not
on the side of the truth… President Bashar Assad said
that Zionism is equal to Nazism. This is a courageous
position that must be commended rather than be denounced in
order to appease the West… Why does he (Al-Akhdhar) call
for translating the writings of the Israeli new-historians?
Because they are Jews? At the same time, however, he
denounces the French, the American and the English
historians.”

At this point, the show’s production team brought French
Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson on the line. Faurisson
said, “Historical revisionism is the most dangerous thing
for Zionism. Historical revisionism that proves the hard
and bitter facts about Zionism – this is the nuclear weapon
of the poor. We have proved and are still proving that
there was no massacre or Holocaust of the Jews, and that
there were no gas chambers for the Jews and that the figure
of six million victims is exaggerated… if you want to
protect Palestine, you cannot do so with guns and shells,
but by saying the truth about the biggest lie of the
Twentieth and Twenty-First Centuries, the lie of the
Holocaust.

Al-Akhdhar’s response to Faurisson was that it is his right
and the right of all American and European researchers to
research what they want and to say whatever they feel.
However, it is not constructive for the Arabs to use the
following statements: “When 96% of the German people
denounce Nazism, it is strange that we [Arabs] should come
and say to the German people: You are wrong. Nazism was not
a disaster, the Jews simply invented a massacre that never
happened, and invented gas chambers that exist only in
their imagination. This is a kind of stupidity and
insanity. I am not opposed to Garaudi or Faurisson writing,
I am against us adopting this rhetoric…”

At this point, Dr. ‘Atiya lost her cool again and yelled at
Al-Akhdhar: “I do not allow you to speak in the name of the
Arab intellectuals… Three days ago we held a conference
at the Jordanian Writers’ Association. 150 intellectuals
attended, none of whom were willing to sign. What you say
is shameful.”
The show’s host, Al-Qasem, joined ‘Atiya and said
Al-Akhdhar’s statements “are full of contradictions. At
first he calls the revisionists garbage, and now he said
that Faurisson has the freedom to write what he wants but
that it would be a mistake for us to use it.

At this point, the host cited statements of Rabbi Ovadia
Yosef against Arabs and his call for exterminating them.
Al-Akhdhar explained that “Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is a criminal
and insane person, and his is a case for mental doctors. He
was even denounced in Israel. He is like the Taliban.”

The host, Al-Qasem, lost his cool and defied his guest:
“Mr. ‘Afif Al-Akhdhar, why is it that every time the
Zionists expose their true character, you act just like the
Western media, and begin to call them insane. When
Goldstein killed the people at prayer, they said he was
crazy. These people express Zionism’s true belief. They are
the true spokesmen of Zionism. He [Ovadia Yosef] is by no
means insane. He is the official spokesman of the Jewish
people who voted for Sharon.”

‘Atiya joined in with Dr. Al-Qasem and explained that Rabbi
Ovadia Yosef “is a religious man, and the Book of Joshua
goes even further. This man expresses his religion.”

Al-Qasem decided at this point to cite [a caller] Abd
Al-Hamid Thakr’s opinion from Al-Jazeera’s web site: “Sons
of Zion, whom our God described as the descendants of apes
and pigs, will not be deterred unless there is a true
Holocaust that will exterminate all of them at once, along
with the traitors, the collaborators, the scum of the
[Islamic] nation…”

At this point, Dr. ‘Atiya took out a large picture of the
baby, Iman Hiju, who was recently killed in the territories
from Israeli fire. On the picture, written in red, “The
murderers of the prophets are the murders of the innocent”.
She cried out: “This is the Holocaust, this is the
Holocaust. There is no Jewish Holocaust, there is only a
Palestinian Holocaust.” In addition, ‘Atiya claimed that
‘Afif Al-Akhdhar “is weaving conspiracies against the
Palestinian Holocaust by repeating what the Western media
says.

The two exchanged insults, Al-Akhdhar calling ‘Atiya a
liar, and she referring to him as a “Nazi” and a “fascist”.
Al-Akhdhar then summed up his view of ‘Atiya’s position:
“Faurisson and Garaudi can write what they want, and they
will always write garbage. Garaudi, for example, is
garbage. As a person he is garbage.”

Concluding the show, the host, Dr. Faisal Al-Qasem, read
the results of the internet poll held on the Al-Jazeera web
site comparing Zionism and Nazism. 12,374 people
participated in the poll and the results are as follows:
“84.6% of Arabs said that Zionism is worse than Nazism;
11.1% said that Zionism is equal to Nazism; 2.7% said that
Nazism is worse than Zionism. All that is left for me to do
is to congratulate the Zionists for this painful result;
indeed, they have excelled in exceeding the Nazis.”

Endnotes:

(1) Al-Jazeera TV (Qatar), May 15, 2001.

This entry was posted on Thursday, June 7th, 2001 and is filed under arabpress.